This weekend Greg Chandler did an outstanding job of leading us in a conversation on forgiveness.
When it comes to this topic, which is more of a challenge for you?
Granting forgiveness to others?
OR
Asking for and accepting it yourself?
As you are willing/able, give us some insight as to why you answer the way you do.
18 comments:
I actually have a slightly different take on this subject.
Person A does something wrong to Person B. Person A is sincerely sorry and asks for forgiveness, but Person B doesn't feel like they can ever really forgive them...
How does Person A handle this situation? What can Person A do? How should Person A feel?
(this has been a question I've had about forgiveness for a long time, actually)
Scott, if you've done all you can, don't let guilt in. Make sure you've sought forgiveness from above, too. I'd probably continue that relationship, not pressuring the act of forgiveness, but waiting for it. It may not come in so many words, but if you've let Person B into your life, chances are he/she will give forgiveness eventually. I can't say the latter part is biblical, so anyone else may have better advice.
As for me, I am much less reluctant to seek forgiveness. Occasionally, I somehow feel like guilt is a punishment I deserve. Especially if my sin against someone is premeditated. I know better, but it still happens.
test
That's the hardest part of the forgiveness process, when humans don't forgive. Then it feels like we're just left with the sting of letting ourselves get vulnerable only to be left with no feeling of resolution.
However, at that point, it's on them. Sounds harsh, but we can't control their reaction. If we've done what we can, then we've got to be ok with ourselves.
For me personally, I often forgive pretty easily (maybe too much). But letting myself off the hook is something I feel as though I'll never learn. I constantly ask forgiveness, but then won't let myself accept it. I guess I think that I'm cold-hearted if I just let it go. Beating myself up seems to be the "humbler" way to go. Although even as I say that, it seems just the opposite. Who am I to say that I know better than God - forgiver of all?
I stumbled onto Psalm 130 last night - check it out.
I, too, usually forgive others easily. But forgive myself? Not so easy. I knew the differnece between right and wrong and chose wrong! God may forgive me, my wife may forgive me, my friends may forgive me, but can I forgive myself. Sometimes yes and sometimes no. This issue is, in fact, my number one problem. I just can't shake the guilt and remorse. I still cry and beat myself up for several sins I committed ten or more years ago. If anyone out there knows a trick or two about how to truly "let go and let God" take away the shame I feel, please post. This is a desparate issue for me. It often gets in the way of going forward.
Jbird, it sounds like all the posts have the same problem of wanting to hold onto guilt because it feels appropriate for our punishment. I'll tell you a trick I read in "How People Grow" by Townsend and Cloud. "Let go and let God" doesn't exist. The way they put it is that God HAS forgiven you, therefore, He has nothing left to do. He can't take guilt away from you because He's already opened up the trash for you to throw it away; that is, it's your free will choosing to hold onto it. They describe a method to come to know forgiveness in the heart as well as the head. It involves the Body of Christ, confession, seeking mercy of the group you're in, etc. The theology behind it is fascinating in that it should be patently obvious. I recommend the book highly. Has anyone else read this book? What's your take?
My biggest problem with forgiving is when the same resentment surfaces again. I have someone in my life that I have forgiven for several things and yet these behaviors continue to show them selves. I have a hard time forgiving someone when they are not sorry and continue to act the same way. Luke 17:3 says "....If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him." So what if they aren't repenting?
Holly, What about the Scriptures that tell us we will be forgiven as we forgive others? Doesnt seem to have anything to do with their repentance. And the response of Jesus to Peter to forgive his brother not 7 time, but 490 times?
Micah, I really like what you said about God having done all he could. Forgiving ourselves seem to come down to believing God is bigger than our stuff.
My biggest problem is when I've forgiven the same person repeatedly for the same thing and they continue to do it. I'm only willing to be hurt so many times before it becomes less painful to hold on to the grudge than deal with the hurt feelings.
So I guess I have a problem forgiving others (after a point). Of course it's not like they've ever asked to be forgiven, I just assume it's healthier to forgive...but for who???
Jbird - That's a tough one. I feel the helplessness that comes through in what you're saying. But it really is your choice. You might want to think about whether there is something you're getting out of feeling guilty. Sounds strange that there could be a reason for wanting to feel guilty, but sometimes people don't realize that they really don't want to give it up. Maybe you could talk with someone and try to finish these sentences:
If I didn't feel guilty anymore, I would have to.....
If I didn't feel guilty anymore, I wouldn't be able to....
If I accepted forgiveness, I would feel _________, and then....
Mrs. Needham,
I think God does want us to forgive others when they hurt us, even over and over. But sometimes, when someone keeps hitting us on the head with a hammer, we need to quit being the nail! I don't know what that means in your situation, but I think I'd move out of the way!
Great dialogue! Keep it up.
As to the question of forgiving people who don't repent, my reading of the scriptures leads me to think that forgiving someone (to their face?) should come with their repentence (ex. if your brother repents, forgive him).
But maybe there's another kind of forgiveness we can offer that will keep us from growing bitter and hard hearted.
Could it be that we can release people from the debts they owe us when we come before God, but wait to tell them of our pardon until they seek it?
Thoughts?
I have a friend who also hurts me repeatedly and I continue to accept her into my life. However, I grumble & complain about it to myself, to God & often to people other than this friend. I wonder what would happen if I actually confronted her with her behavior? Can I actually be sure that she knows what she's doing that hurts me?
The scripture quoted says "Rebuke the person, then if they ask, give forgiveness" I'm not so good at the rebuking part because I'm terrified of losing the friends I have. I continue to need reminding that often the problems I get tangled in have much more to do with me than other people.
If there is a person in your life who is hurting you but you continue to have them there, then there must be some perceived value to having them there or else it's someone not easily bypassed (like family or a co-worked in your immediate work area). Might be time to decide if the benefit is worth the pain.
As to getting rid of your own guilty feelings.... one song that has helped me greatly in my own walk is the song that says "We fall down, we get up.... and the saints are just the sinners who fall down and get up." I tell God if He will help me, I will do my best to keep getting up.
Thanks to all for the feedback. I understand that forgiveness is on us to give and not necessarily for someone else to recieve. Turning the other cheek, right? I know that in order for me to still have this person in my life and to continue to love them, I must let go of the resentments that I hold whether they continue to act a certian way or not. Jesus would tell me to love them for who they are and not who I want them to be and to forgive as many times as they sin against me. I see that. It is hard to do and changing my attitude is the hard part. I think that guilt is the same way. I have done some outlandish things in the past but I don't beat myself up with guilt. I have to learn from the mistakes and pray that I don't repeat them. If, however, there are ammends that need to be made, I must make them. I must apologize and seek forgiveness if possible. Guilt can motivate me to do the right thing and generally when I have done as God wants me to do, the guilt will fade. Good luck jbird. I have found that when I am able to PRAY, LISTEN to God's response, and DO as He leads me to, I will find peace. Easier said than done.
This may sound like a joke and it kind of is, but is also very true. One major 'forgiveness' that I have been able to accomplish in my life is that I no longer hold a grudge against the person having 15 items in the 10 item checkout lane. It simply no longer bothers me.
This sounds like a joke until you know that this used to make me seethe and make snappy remarks to all sorts of people. Once I was able to put this behind me, I think other things got easier.
Perhaps forgiveness can start with 'small steps'.
Hi,
I remember Jesus saying on the cross, Forgive them for they know not what they do... so I make myself sometime go on and forgive-it is freeing for me and I don't have sometimes unrealistic expectations of them coming to me and asking for forgiveness. When it happens though it is a GIHT. Meanwhile I may stay out of someone's harmful ways especially if I have been a target!! I remember my sister and I debating some issues of my Dad's life. She said he never asked for forgiveness to her...I don't think we can wait for a pattern or formula-we must try as a Christian to forgive...start the forgiveness journey...I may go through the motions until it is more integrated into my feelings..."fake it till I make it, I guess"
Ms. Holly, I'm not sure I concur with Greg or others on guilt as a motivator. That is, I'm not sure there is a "good" guilt. Perhaps because I separate conviction by the Holy Spirit from my emotional feeling of guilt. Guilt assumes that you've been judged, which means you were under a law that you've broken. So far, in my short walk, it seems like the HS gently rebukes me with scripture and through people whereas guilt is played out as all encompassing shame that weighs me down, keeps me from smiling at my neighbor and focuses my attention on ME, where the HS guidance focuses my attention on HIM. Did that come through as mud?
Fred, good thought to have forgiveness before they seek it, i.e. releasing before Him. Let me ask this to everyone from the flip side of the above posts: if I sin (consciously or not) against God or someone, and not repent, is that my condemnation despite my love for Him/that person (to mrs. needham's et al. point)? Or is that the definition of un-love?
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